tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post7811363922351237985..comments2024-03-28T17:50:40.478+00:00Comments on Fuse open science blog: From middle-class to world-classFusehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02167289608282259405noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-48805427122635060142012-07-19T11:34:33.931+01:002012-07-19T11:34:33.931+01:00Thanks Peter for this really interesting, thought-...Thanks Peter for this really interesting, thought-provoking post. It doesn't entirely resonate with my own experiences of academia, but I certainly don't think it's narrow-minded to write honestly from your own perspective (i.e. as someone who admits they are middle class). Maybe you should've also drawn attention to the fact that you're based at a Russell Group university and so your experience won't be the same as those working in other institutions, e.g. the former polys like Northumbria University where I'm based. There does seem to be a more diverse social mix here at Northumbria, both in terms of the staff and student populations. It's not that one way of doing things is right and the other is wrong, but you've asked an interesting question in terms of what impact this has on public health research (in terms of access to the profession and our ability to engage with working class participants). My PhD was on the subject of using lay health trainers to engage with fellow community members and support them to adopt healthier behaviours, so I'm a bit biased on that front! It would be great to see more lay/peer researchers in public health. I just think we need to remain aware of the power dynamics that exist and reflect on the fact that, by virtue of our role as academics and/or health professionals, many people will tend to see us as knowledgeable 'experts' (and also as middle class, whether we like it or not).Shelina Visramnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-49419531854572815442012-07-18T17:32:21.085+01:002012-07-18T17:32:21.085+01:00Very very good points. I guess the first one can b...Very very good points. I guess the first one can be tied into the age-old adage that while inequalities may be easy to identify, they are significantly harder to solve. Still, talking about them is an important first step... <br /><br />I like the idea of working 'with' other communities to try and bring in a more diverse knowledge base (not quite as much as having them 'in' the system, but it's a reasonable stop gap). I suppose this is one of the foundations of the movement towards patient/public involvement in research. It is also why I am a strong advocate of qualitative research. I just don't believe the paternalistic model is appropriate for complex psychosocial issues.Peter Tennanthttp://about.me/petertennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-40128651559636007192012-07-18T16:18:10.522+01:002012-07-18T16:18:10.522+01:00I think it is a lot to do with 'connections...I think it is a lot to do with 'connections' and also language. As well as the usual things of attending a school with incredibly low aspirations (my careers advice was to become a hairdresser, despite saying that I wanted to go to university and study sociology to become a researcher). I feel lucky that my family have always been very supportive and that I grew up surrounded by books - this was very unusual amongst my peers. Sometimes I feel that I don't 'belong' in some of my work encounters but then again I have the same feelings sometimes when I 'return to my routes'. This is not a very coherent comment (and please excuse the many '', I have used this when I feel a word/concept doesn't quite fit with what I mean but is as close as I can get right now), I will think about it some more and try a better answer when my brain is properly engaged!Rosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-66147360866453978102012-07-18T14:38:35.920+01:002012-07-18T14:38:35.920+01:00Are you able to expand briefly on why having a mid...Are you able to expand briefly on why having a middle class background would make your career and work life a bit easier even now? If you dont want to thats fine, just interested. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-19498702507065827962012-07-18T14:12:10.618+01:002012-07-18T14:12:10.618+01:00There are two issues here.
The first - lack of di...There are two issues here.<br /><br />The first - lack of diversity in academia and the effect that has on choosing and shaping research questions - will not be easily solved. The undergraduate population under-represents some social groups, so the pool of people potentially entering academia is already biased. We're all aware of the multiple hurdles from PhD to tenured position, and the filtering at each stage means that groups under-represented at the bottom are even less likely to be represented at the top. Never mind 'class' - at a previous biomedical faculty I was based in, it was hard to find a Professor who didn't tick at least one box out of 'clinical', 'male' or 'Oxbridge'. As a non-clinical, non-Oxbridge female, I wasn't seeing 'people like me' in the most senior positions, even though social mobility meant I didn't share my grandparent's working class status.<br /><br />The second issue - how the limits to diversity affects the ability to carry out effective and relevant research across society - could be addressed in other ways. Rather than wait for academics to be more socially representative, what about engaging the help of 'lay facilitators' who know the communities in which we might want to conduct research, and who understand what really matters? Charities working overseas increasingly work WITH communities rather than just IN them, so why not the same here?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-25196513765667854522012-07-18T13:47:56.682+01:002012-07-18T13:47:56.682+01:00Completely agree. I thought about drawing parallel...Completely agree. I thought about drawing parallels with the medical profession, where there definitely remains a lack of staff from lower socio-economic groups, which I equally suspect has implications for the doctor-patient relationship. Starting with the obvious: are they speaking the same language?! <br /><br />My favourite related anecdote concerns the <a href="http://www.nursingtimes.net/Journals/1/Files/2010/7/16/GlossaryofYorkshireMedicalTerms-2.pdf" rel="nofollow">Glossary of Yorkshire Medical Terms</a>, launched by NHS Doncaster to aid European doctors understand their patients, but also 'useful for any healthcare staff needing a Yorkshire refresher' (in the words of <a href="http://www.bmj.com/content/340/bmj.c3431" rel="nofollow">Rebecca Wilkins from the BMJ</a>).Peter Tennanthttp://about.me/petertennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-16145741943894643172012-07-18T13:31:18.692+01:002012-07-18T13:31:18.692+01:00Thanks Rose!Thanks Rose!Peter Tennanthttp://about.me/petertennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-40892032849380531622012-07-18T11:59:29.322+01:002012-07-18T11:59:29.322+01:00I definitely suspect my view has been over-narrowe...I definitely suspect my view has been over-narrowed by so many years in the ivory tower!Peter Tennanthttp://about.me/petertennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-90232313626976333262012-07-18T11:09:56.835+01:002012-07-18T11:09:56.835+01:00Very interesting. Thanks very much for sharing thi...Very interesting. Thanks very much for sharing this.Peter Tennanthttp://about.me/petertennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-65305447183533692342012-07-18T11:01:48.085+01:002012-07-18T11:01:48.085+01:00Really interesting piece Peter and I agree with ab...Really interesting piece Peter and I agree with above comments. <br /><br />There's a similar problem in medicine; classically doctors, along with all university attenders, have been from the higher socio-economic groups and whatever the papers/university admissions say, this is not changing. Most patients that these doctors go on to treat will be from lower socio-economic groups than themselves and this has obvious implications for the doctor-patient relationship and effectiveness of care. However well meaning, open-minded, unjudgemental etc etc we are trained to be, we can never truly empathise with most of our patients. How can we hope to deliver effective HOLISTIC care? <br /><br />Is that why its easier to hide behind prescriptions than tackle the bigger problems, the real socio-economic and cultural causes for your patient coming to see you?<br /><br />What do others think?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-57281239297492099722012-07-18T10:49:07.974+01:002012-07-18T10:49:07.974+01:00Dot, you are definitely one of my heroes! And I ag...Dot, you are definitely one of my heroes! And I agree that you offer a different slant on things, and I think that makes our research stronger overall. Just imagine the good that could be done if you were made Professor?! ;)Peter Tennanthttp://about.me/petertennantnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-26590855681103813422012-07-18T09:51:28.217+01:002012-07-18T09:51:28.217+01:00I agree with Dot, some of us are slowly coming int...I agree with Dot, some of us are slowly coming into this field...I definitely did not come from a middle class background! Although I do have to admit that sometimes I think it would have made, and in fact still would make, my career and working life a bit easier. Very interesting post :)Rose Watsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-84139805059738267262012-07-18T09:43:23.722+01:002012-07-18T09:43:23.722+01:00This is so narrow minded its unbelievable! ......;...This is so narrow minded its unbelievable! ......;-)<br />OK...guess you could ask whether you need to empathise with people to understand the bits about them you are studying. I would guess that it would help but who knows...need more data (theres a grant proposal in there somewhere). Seems to me that this problem is manifest in many other human interactions (and cuts both ways). People have a hard time knowing what its really like to walk a mile in the other persons shoes. The question is, how influential is it in determining our actions or non-actions. That really is a research question.<br />Biggus DiggusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-8121310066315614892012-07-18T09:37:04.957+01:002012-07-18T09:37:04.957+01:00I suggest you listen to this 30minute podcast that...I suggest you listen to this 30minute podcast that talks about this sort of thing. It's Act 1: Harlem Renaissance - http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/364/going-big<br /><br />I keep telling people in public health to listen to it, but I don't know if they are.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3955304210599373230.post-47067667464081900762012-07-18T09:29:38.449+01:002012-07-18T09:29:38.449+01:00I do think this is changing though and we're c...I do think this is changing though and we're coming up through the ranks (slowly!). Some of us are middle class now but weren't as children. As everyone who knows me knows, I come from a very deprived background and am the only person (ever I think) to have got a PhD from the school I went too. There are others I know who come from similarly deprived backgrounds. I do think we can offer a different slant on work being done as we know how things really are. I'm happy to take a Chair to get things going quicker!Dorothy Newbury-Birchnoreply@blogger.com